法王新闻 | 2008年05月

『媒体访谈』《時代雜誌》專文:下一位世界領導級喇嘛

『Media Interview』Time Magazine: The World’s Next Top Lama

時間:2008年5月15日 May 15, 2008 12:00 AM EDT
作者:David Van Biema/New York
中譯:楊薇雲教授

To the apparent astonishment and delight of his American retinue, the baby-faced 22-year-old who may one day replace the Dalai Lama as the world symbol of Tibetan Buddhism and icon of Tibetan aspirations said today, on his first trip here, that he hoped he might be able to spend two months a year in the United States, raising the possibility that in decades to come, America could become an important focus for that community.
看到這位二十二歲、有一張娃娃臉的喇嘛時,美國隨扈們都顯露出驚喜的表情。這位喇嘛將來很可能會取代達賴喇嘛,成為藏傳佛教世界性的象徵,以及西藏人精神 寄託的對象。這是他第一次的美國之旅,當他今天抵達紐約時,他說:他希望將來可以每年到美國來住兩個月。他的話預告了,將來有可能美國會成為藏傳佛教的一 個重要的據點。

Ogyen Trinley Dorje, the 17th Karmapa, or head of the Kagyu sect of Tibetan Buddhism, sat at his ease in a throne-like overstuffed chair, rimless rectangular glasses perched on his pleasantly round, shaven head, a yellow shirt peeking out from underneath a dark red robe, feet in pebbled brown loafers. Reputedly stern, the Karmapa, who spent half an hour with TIME, was both remarkably well-tempered and focused for a man who had just come off a 14-hour flight — by far his longest since he arrived in India eight years ago as a teenager after a swashubuckling escape from China by foot, horseback and plane. Asked whether he had slept on on his way here, he replied in English, “Sleep, but not well. Lot of…” and he did an expert mime of transatlantic turbulence.
鄔金欽列多傑,第十七世噶瑪巴,也是藏傳佛教噶舉傳承的精神領袖,他很輕鬆地坐在一張非常厚實像法座一樣的椅子上,戴著一副無邊方框的眼鏡,他的頭理的非 常整齊,看起來圓潤飽滿。身披著一件暗紅色的僧袍,可看到裡面黃色的襯衣顯露出來,他的腳上穿著一雙褐色石紋的平底鞋。噶瑪巴是出名的嚴肅,可是在與《時 代雜誌》記者相處的半小時中,他的態度出奇 地親切,而且非常專注,對一個剛剛飛了十四個小時才下飛機的人而言,是非常難得的。這次旅行是噶瑪巴在八年前,還是個青少年時,從西藏經由步行、騎馬以及 飛機等工具、震撼性的出走到印度之後,時間最長的旅程。被問及在飛機上是否有睡覺,他用英語回答:『有睡,可是不是睡得很好,有很多的…。』接著,他做了 一個非常逼真的模仿動作,藉此告訴記者他橫越大西洋時,所經歷的亂流。

Dorje’s two-week American trip, which will include stops in New York City, the Kagyu center in Seattle and the vast monastery his adherents have nearly completed in Woodstock, N.Y as his American seat, is a literal “coming out.” The Indian government, wary of relations with China, had not until now allowed the young man, whom the Dalai Lama had taken under his wing, to travel internationally. Followers here who have not seen their leader since his predecessor died in 1981 (they believe four years passed before his reincarnation) will bask in his attention and teachings. “The previous Karmapa visited the U.S. several times and his dharma activity here was vast,” he said (this time through a translator). “It is my hope to continue that.” He added, “My work is not going to be conducted only among other Buddhists, but to help everyone.” He also said he wants to “look at things not only from a Buddhist perspective,” but from the viewpoint of other faiths as well — a tall order.
法王噶瑪巴兩週美國之旅的行程,將包括紐約市的兩處地方、西雅圖的噶舉中心,及位於屋士達(woodstock)即將完成 的宏偉寺院,此處將會成為他在美國的駐錫地。他這次的美國之旅是名符其實的『出來』(coming out),即使尊者達賴喇嘛提供法王噶瑪巴的庇護之所,但是因為印度政府對中國的反應非常謹慎,直到現在才讓這位年輕的喇嘛出來做國際性的訪問。自從他的 前一世在1981年圓寂之後,噶瑪巴在美國的信眾是第一次見到他們的精神導師,(信眾們相信第十七世噶瑪巴是在第十六世噶瑪巴圓寂四年後轉世的),而他們 也將會受到噶瑪巴的加持及教導。他說(經由翻譯說出):『上一世的噶瑪巴曾經數次訪問美國,他在這邊的法教事業非常的廣泛,我希望能夠接續這個事業。』他 接著說:『我的法教事業不僅僅只是在佛教徒中推行,而是希望能夠幫助到每一個人。』他也說,他希望能夠『不僅是從佛教徒的觀點』,同時也能夠從其他的信仰 角度來觀察世事-這是一件 非常艱鉅的任務。

And although he confirmed an adviser’s caution that Kagyu leaders have no tradition of engaging in politics, he noted, “As far as I’m concerned, the situation in Tibet, particularly the political situation, has reached a level of emergency.” He sees his teacher as a major player in dealing with it: “The Dalai Lama is both the spiritual and secular leader of all the Tibetan people, and is recognized as such all over the world, and the Dalai Lama has a tremendous responsibility in his great efforts to bring about a peaceful resolution.” But he noted that “in the Tibetan tradition we regard the connection between a lama and his spiritual teacher to be sacred.” And “like all Tibetans, I will continue to support him in this as best I can in the future.”
雖然他確切地接受噶瑪噶舉的領袖不參與政治的傳統,可是他也注意到:『就我所能觀察到西藏的情況,特別是政治的情勢,已經到了迫在眉睫的程度。』他視他的老師- 尊者達賴喇嘛-為處理緊急情況的主要推手。『達賴喇嘛是所有西藏人民世俗以及精神的領袖,全世界都承認他的地位,達賴喇嘛有極艱鉅的責任,努力 於為西藏人民的問題帶來和平解決的方法。』不過,他也說,在西藏的傳統,我們認為喇嘛和他的精神導師的關係是很神聖的,像所有的西藏人一樣,未來我會繼續以最大的力量來支持 尊者。』

Indeed, when the Dalai Lama, currently a relatively healthy 72, dies, the Karmapa could end up his replacement as the face of Tibet. He could never be the next Dalai Lama. “Karmapa,” like “Dalai Lama,” is its own reincarnate title. Nor could he become the hands-on political leader of a Tibetan government or government-in-exile, a job the Dalai Lama has ceded to a prime minister. But a recent YouTube video shows the Dalai Lama talking to the Karmapa and Ling Rinpoche, the 19-year-old reincarnation of another high monk. The older man tells them, “You two… are still young, and when I die you will be the ones who continue by work.” In the video, the Karmapa starts slightly, and his eyes roll back a moment before he regains composure.
確實,當現年七十二歲,身體還算健康的尊者達賴喇嘛將來圓寂後, 法王噶瑪巴很可能會接替達賴喇嘛成為西藏的代言人。他永遠不可能成為下一個達賴喇嘛。『噶瑪巴』就像『達賴喇嘛』一樣,是他們各自轉世傳承的稱號。他也不可能自己去接替成為西藏流亡政府的政治領袖,這個政治工作已經由尊者達賴喇嘛正式任命總理去執行。

The video, which seems authentic, reinforces sentiments the Dalai Lama expressed in public in 2001 and acknowledges the Karmapa’s unique portfolio. The Karmapa is traditionally regarded as the third most important person in Tibetan Buddhism after the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, who disappeared years ago and whose replacement, picked by the Chinese, is not recognized by most Tibetans. He is unusual among a new generation of leaders because of his birth and training as a high lama in Tibet. He speaks fluent Chinese, and attracted numerous Chinese adherents before fleeing. The Karmapa’s close relationship with the Dalai Lama knits up a historic tension between their two lineages, and helps make him a unifying figure.
尊者達賴喇嘛也在2001年時公開的場合中,表達對噶瑪巴所代表的獨一無二傳承的肯定。傳統上噶瑪巴被視為在藏傳佛教中第三位最重要的領袖,僅次於達賴喇 嘛與班禪喇嘛。由於噶瑪巴在西藏出生,及又在西藏寺院中成長,他的背景在藏傳佛教年輕世代的領袖中是很特別的。他能夠說極流利的中文,吸引了不少 華人信眾。現今法王噶瑪巴與尊者達賴喇嘛的密切關係,彌合了過去這兩大教派之間的緊張關係,也使的他成為一位代表融合力量的人物。

Robert Thurman, an expert in Tibetan Buddhism at Columbia University who knows the Dalai Lama well, has had repeated contact with the Karmapa and will soon publish a book titled Why the Dalai Lama Matters, worries that “if [the Karmapa] is pressured by devotees to travel and teach too much at too young an age at the expense of his studies,” it could prevent him from “manifesting his full strength.” But if he is allowed to mature, says Thurman, “50 years from now my son may have to write a book saying Why the Karmapa Matters.”
在哥倫比亞大學研究藏傳佛教的專家,舒曼博士認識達賴喇嘛已久,與噶瑪巴也有多次的接觸,他即將要出版一本書,其書名為《達賴喇嘛的歷史任務》(暫 譯:Why the Dalai Lama Matters)),他表達他的憂慮:『如果噶瑪巴的信徒,對他們的精神導師期盼過於急切,希望他常來美國教導他們,如此會犧牲噶瑪巴自己的學習時間』, 結果將造成他無法『發揮他所有的力量』。如果他能夠得到充分的空間成長,舒曼博士說:『五十年以後,我的兒子可能會寫一本《噶瑪巴的歷史任務》(暫 譯:Why the Karmapa Matters)』。

Meanwhile, for the head of a major Tibetan lineage to spend a sixth of every year in the United States would be a tremendous boost for the Buddhist community here. The Karmapa’s p.r. representative claims he has attained a near sell-out of 21,000 seats at teachings he will give here (starting with one Saturday at Manhattan’s Hammerstein Ballroom) almost solely on the strength of e-mail chains. Many in the audience will be his age. When a reporter noted that the Kagyu lineage is known for its stress on practice and that his own generation is not known for its patience, the Karmapa delivered some advice that his American followers could no doubt appreciate. “If people have no patience,” he said, “they have no patience, and I can’t insist that they develop it. But I’ve observed that human life without patience becomes unworkable. My experience has been that I’ve been forced to develop patience with unchangeable situations.” It is a virtue to recommend as well to those hoping for a solution for Tibet’s status
可是對於此地的佛教徒社群,有一位藏傳佛教主要傳承的精神領袖,每年在美國駐錫兩個月,會是一股非常強大的推動佛陀法教 的力量。法王噶瑪巴公共關係的發言人說:僅僅經由電子信箱的連結網來銷售法王噶瑪巴在美國佛法開示的入場卷,一共兩萬一千個席次,幾乎已全部賣完。來聆聽 的信眾中,有許多是與 法王的年齡相仿。有一位記者提到噶舉傳承以其注重實修而聞名,而這一代的年輕人並沒有太大的耐性。法王噶瑪巴給了他的建議,無疑的,他的美國信眾對此會非 常感謝。他說:『如果他們沒有耐心,我也不可能堅持他們要去發展耐心。但是我觀察到人的生命會因為缺乏耐心會變得一無用處,我個人經驗是因為處於無法改變 的外在環境,而被迫地去發展耐性。』這是一個應該要推薦給年輕人的美德,同樣地也是給予那些希望解決西藏定位的人很好的建議。

資料來源:Van Bieman, David. “The World’s Next Top Lama”. Time Magazine, May 15, 2008 , http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1807103,00.html
翻譯整理:心創會,楊薇雲教授

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